Plugin System (More advanced than .py scripts)

The Python scripts are great, but wouldn't it be even better if there was some sort of support for binary-container plugins? Every homebrew program that has to be loaded outside XBMC as a seperate xbe could be run inside it, so you could, for example run emulators, from within XBMC. This would allow you to adjust settings and navigate roms from inside XBMC. It might even be possible to have a toggle to disable emulator sound and play music files in xbmc simultaneously instead, for those that would rather listen to their own music than the game music.

Is something like this possible with the limited resources the Xbox has?

It would be great to have even if it wasn't at the full speed that a seperate xbe could run. Stuff like dvd2xbox could be accessed more efficiently, so you wouldn't have to load up a whole seperate xbe just to copy a disk.

I don't know much about Python, so if this may be possible with Python instead of a whole separate system, but I don't see any of this kind of thing occuring. No matter what way it's done, something like this would certainly be useful for many people.

As Gamester17 often points out for us all:

"xbmc is not an operating system"

And i think python does just fine for 'plug-ins'

But it COULD be if it was changed just a little bit to make it interconnectable with other components. What's so wrong about wanting your Xbox to be a little more efficient? That's why OSes were invented in the first place.

"xbmc is not an operating system"

This is a little battle will have ever until i develop multitask XbmcOS :D On the other side, i think it could be interesting to run non-interpreted executables, or at least something more optimiced that a text file (for example, java or .Net, as i sayed before).

I'm just thinking that the plugin system would provide a more unified OS type feel to the functionality of the various Xbox apps and could make some of the less resource hungry things more efficient in how functional and easy to use they are. It'd certainly be cool if XBMC was it's own fully-functional (for it's uses) OS that could do all the things you'd want your Xbox to do...aside from running commerical games of course.

But it COULD be if it was changed just a little bit to make it interconnectable with other components. What's so wrong about wanting your Xbox to be a little more efficient? That's why OSes were invented in the first place.

xbmc has about 5 active devs (coders).

name an os that was developed by 5 coders.

frankly, i don't think you have the slightest clue what you are talking about.

This is a little battle will have ever until i develop multitask XbmcOS :D On the other side, i think it could be interesting to run non-interpreted executables, or at least something more optimiced that a text file (for example, java or .Net, as i sayed before).

The key would be to port it to X360 or the PC... or Wii (I know this may be too much but it is already cracked).

I LOVE XBMC but the orig XBOX hardware is reaching the limit as HD resolutions start to become the norm.

We really need to have some coding magi's port this to a more current hardware platform... the PC would be amazing since it could open the possibilities of interacting with Vista Ultimate (Media Center) and the Sideshow Remotes which would revolutionize the way we control our media throughout the entire home!

As Gamester17 often points out for us all:

"xbmc is not an operating system"

And i think python does just fine for 'plug-ins'

xbmc has about 5 active devs (coders).

name an os that was developed by 5 coders.

frankly, i don't think you have the slightest clue what you are talking about.

http://www.skyos.org/?q=node/401

I don't mean any offense by that link. I'm just saying; it's not impossible...really, really hard maybe, but it CAN be done with enough work.

Also, Gamester17, I see your point. I just got in one of those "finally got around to updating XBMC, saw all the cool new features and got to thinking" modes. :P

As I have never programmed for the Xbox before I didn't really know that it was such high-level programming. Now I'm just impressed XBMC achieves such power when it's that far abstracted from hardware. *_*

As a somewhat noobish C/C# programmer I know some programming basics and I've programmed a bit for the GBA, but that's pure hardware interface, so this is totally out of my field of knowledge.

It seems mplayer and other .dll files work as pluggins, so it should work. Otherwise, it's curious to know there are too few xbmc pluggins... Maybe someone with more xbmc knowledge can help you, but it a very interesting idea...

I'm not really worried about whether it can connect to dlls, my concern is more in the processing capabilities and the amount of RAM that would be required to store XBMC's runtime files AND the emulator's runtime files and loaded ROM.

I know XBMC has troubles with some videos from lack of processing capabilities but if your just playing mp3s will there be enough left over resources to run a plugin interpreter and a plugin for some of the more basic emulators or other programs that aren't time-restrictive?

The key would be to port it to X360 or the PC... or Wii (I know this may be too much but it is already cracked).

I LOVE XBMC but the orig XBOX hardware is reaching the limit as HD resolutions start to become the norm.

At my point of view, the problem is not HD resolutions: it's that there's no new XBOXes. If you broke your XBox, you can't repair it or buy a new one. Actually at Spain is really dificult to get one... I think maybe we should sonner or later try to support completly XBMC on a Windows PC, since (i believe) it should be very easy and if we broke our XBox we can change it with a micro-ATX motherboard (no XBox games... but ReactOS team claims xbe support would be very easy to do).

P.D.: Wii uses Linux as PS3 does, better had a Linux port before make a Wii port ;)

Here it comes again; please do not compare XBMC to an operating-system nor expect XBMC to act as an operating-system, because XBMC is not an operating-system and XBMC will never be or become an operating-system. Please do not either compare XBMC to an application that runs on-top on a operating-system which can co-exist with other application that run on-top on that operating-system, because XBMC can never be that as long as it is a native Xbox XDK-based application. Sure someone may someday port XBMC to a other game-console that allows several applications/games to run at the same time or maybe someone someday port XBMC to be an application that runs on-top of a real operating-system like Linux or Microsoft Windows, but that is not what this discussion is about, plus there are already other topic-threads in these forums that discusses those ideas, so lets not start another depate about the same thing, thanks you in advance. (If however you insist on continueing this in that direction then this whole topic thread will be moved by us to the off-topic jokes section, as that is what the discussion will become, a joke, with non-developers trying to discuss low-level programming design, but if you really are a C/C++ programmer yourself and plan on coding it yourself then you are welcome to start a new topic thread in the developer forum). End-users should stick to the existing threads:
- Would you like to see XBMC on a other console/hardware-platform? (link) (http://xbmc.org/forum/showthread.php?t=19144)
- XBMC GUI Win32 PC Development Environment for skinners & python developers (link) (http://xbmc.org/forum/showthread.php?t=23235)
- Xbox360 and XBMC (XBMC on Xbox360?)? (link) (http://xbmc.org/forum/showthread.php?t=9299)
- Port XBMC to Linux-OS (XBMC on a Linux computer or other Linux device?)? (link) (http://xbmc.org/forum/showthread.php?t=9287)

To clearify; I have explanied this before many times before; Please understand that we have to draw the line somewhere, as XBMC is after all not an operating system with all acomponing software you can install, ...there are all types of odd things requested to be integrated into XBMC, like e-mail server/clients, build-in mini-games, SAMBA file-server, DHCP-server, JAVA-Runtime-Enviroment, GPS navigator, even requests for built-in game-console emulators and many other things that do not belong in a media-player application (which is after all what XBMC is), ...now I know that many people get excited when they see everything that XBMC can already do and they want it to do 'just a little more' to "make XBMC perfect for them", I can even partially understand this but in the end you have to be realistic, (and only arguing that "My Weather" doesn't belong in a media-center so why should not their 'special feature' not also be added too is not reason enough to add all and everything you might think of to XBMC).

Again here is why!; XBMC is not an operating system. XBMC is only one excutable running in one process, as the Xbox BIOS (which is as close to an operating system you get on the original Xbox as it is it that controlles the low-level access to the Xbox hardware resourses such as memory, processor and harddrive, and presents that as a high-level API (Application Program Interface) to the application or game running on the Xbox) do not support more than one excutable/process running at any one time. The simplified definition of a Operating-System (OS) is an under-laying system software responsible for the direct control and management of hardware, and additionally can have several excutables (application software (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/application_software)) running under it at the time (and each of those excutables can be running one or more processes), please see wikipedia.org for a more detailed description (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/operating_system). This XBMC can never be.

If you want to run a true operating system on the Xbox then a xbox-linux distribution (http://www.xbox-linux.org) is your only choise (in order to run Linux on the xbox they had to replace the Xbox-BIOS with a real x86 bios, as the original Xbox-BIOS can not run Linux, ...and the Linux BIOS for Xbox can not Xbox games made with the XDK).

PS! See Xbox-Linux FAQ for more answers to questions like: The Xbox is a standard PC, isn't it? (http://www.xbox-linux.org/wiki/faq#the_xbox_is_a_standard_pc.2c_isn.27t_it.3f), and Why not develop on top of the Xbox kernel? (http://www.xbox-linux.org/wiki/faq#why_not_develop_on_top_of_the_xbox_kernel.3f)

From what I know from all the dlls etc used with XBMC, they are not really 'plugin' system' like python, python u just drop them in and can run them. Mplayer .dll for example has a Mplayer specfic part inside XBMC to get it to load. This should be the same as paplayer, dvdplayer and python dll. Currently there is no 'plug in a dll' and have it work. Theres no common interface.

For the most part python scripts do best. a New Dll plugin system would require a interface to be written and parts of xbmc to be exposed (so the dll can run, use xbmc gui components etc). To me CyruzDraxs is more intrested in porting games/apps/emus into a 'dll container' then having XBMC able to run them, and tunnel all the calls.

There really isn't a need. Only thing python really lacks is the ablitiy to hook it into XBMC (so easy way to get your script to appear in a Context Menu, and also a way to pass arguments/info on execution)

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7 January 2009 | cameltoepants.com | edit