I am towing a 20 foot Forest River Surveyor travel trailer with a
Toyota Sequioa. I am planning to leave the Toronto, Ontario, area in the first
week of November with a goal of wintering in warmer climates of
southern USA ...preferably somewhere I can study art, like Sedona. I
am wondering if I can avoid winterizing my trailer, as I do not want
to forfeit the use of my water system if possible. (Last year it froze
at the high altitude in Butte Montana in late October). I would need a
route where things would not freeze or a way of "freeze proofing" the
trailer. Any suggestions?Hello gildalilly,
Welcome to my state this winter!
I checked the temperatures on major cities along your route for Nov.
1. Temperatures vary, of course, but you will probably run into
freezing weather. It may be a surprise to you, but Sedona can get very
cold in the winter. Several times on our way to Flagstaff from
Phoenix, Sedona is typically where the heavy snow begins.
A trip from Toronto, Ontario, Canada to Sedona, Arizona , US, is
roughly 2180 miles and 33 and a half hours driving time.
http://www.mapquest.com/directions/main.adp?go=1&do=nw&un=m&2tabval=address&cl=EN&ct=NA&1tabval=address&bs.x=0&bs.y=0&bs=bs&1y=US&1a=&1c=toronto&1s=ON&1z=&2y=US&2a=&2c=Sedona&2s=AZ&2z=&idx=0&id=413d2485-0003d-00245-cdbcf38b&aid=413d2485-0003e-00245-cdbcf38b
Let?s look at the average minimum temperatures for some of the larger
cities you?ll be passing through. I decided to go with the average
minimum temperatures to prepare for the worst case scenario.
Lansing, Michigan
Average minimum temperature for Nov. 1 is 40F, with a low of 20F.
http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KLAN/2004/11/1/DailyHistory.html
South Bend, IN
Average minimum temperature for Nov. 1 is 42F, with a record low of 24F.
http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KSBN/2004/11/1/DailyHistory.html
Lincoln, NB
Average minimum temperature for Nov. 1 is 33F, with a record low of 16F.
http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KLNK/2003/11/1/DailyHistory.html
Oklahoma City, OK
Average minimum temperature for Nov. 1 is 44F, with a record low of 33F.
http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KPWA/2003/11/1/DailyHistory.html
Santa Fe, NM
Average minimum temperature for Nov. 1 is 34F, with a record low of 23F.
http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KSAF/2003/11/1/DailyHistory.html
Sedona, AZ
Average minimum temperature for Nov. 1 is 26F, with a record low of 11F.
http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KFLG/2003/11/1/DailyHistory.html
Since you will be driving in areas that will or may experience
freezing temperatures, you may want to take some precautionary steps
to avoid frozen pipes. According to my research, you should not have
trouble as long as you are using the furnace when you stop each night.
I have noted on several forums that your trailer seems to be well
insulated. The altitude of Butte, Montana is 8,580 feet above sea
level, while Sedona?s is 4,400 feet, to your trailer?s benefit.
Below are some tips for traveling in the winter months. You may also
consider heating tapes or pipe wraps for additional protection against
freezing.
?The next thing is wrapping "heat tape" around your water inlet hose.
I use heat tape around the faucet as well as the inlet water hose. The
next thing needed is to look for ALL EXPOSED water lines if you find
them you have to wrap them with heat tape also.?
http://www.2rvguys.com/winter.html
http://www.mobile-mart.com/heattape.htm
http://www.mobile-mart.com/pipewrap.htm
http://www.radiantbarrier.com/pipe_wraps.htm
http://www.mclendons.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=40-13
http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/ProductDisplay/s-10101/p-639/c-10101
?Avoid using lightweight, thermostatically controlled heat tape
because it is fragile and has been implicated as a possible cause of
some home fires. Instead use self-regulating heat tape, connected to
an inexpensive 110 volt thermostat. The self-regulating heat tape
produces more heat as the temperature becomes colder. It is rugged and
resists mechanical damage better than the flat, thin-skinned.?
http://www.srmi.biz/tipstorage2.html
Winterizing tips from an RV forum:
?Lamps with bulbs from 150 to 500 watts and a thermometer will be
vital to keep water lines and onboard pump from freezing. I use daily
weather and the thermometer to adjust which wattage is needed. Too
much and your electric bill sucks, too little and running water
doesn't happen till noon.
My RV has a cold water line running behind frig where the vent is that
freezes in really cold weather. Locate and insulate.
Make covers for roof vents and A/C unit big enough to accomodate
insualtion - blocks lots of heat loss that way.
An electric blanket is absolute must for nightime comfort and way
cheaper than heating whole RV.
I turned my furnace down to 60 and use small heaters for heating where
I am. It has saved probably 40 % of utility bills overall.
Large propane tanks and automatic crossovers are well worthwhile.
Filling the onboard water tank and using it is easier than keeping
outside line from freezing.
A light/heat source is necessary to keep sewage valves from freezing shut.
A gallon of antifreeze poured into each tank when emptied will help
keep the water in the discharge pipes from freezing.
There is a self-adhesive 'rope caulk' available for sealing drafty
windows. It can only be installed above 40 degrees so it is useless in
the middle of winter - lol
If I was going to do this again, I would beef up the draperies on each
window, particularly the front to block more cold.
Plumbing froze at 30F... early enough that we were able to re route
them from below the tank spaces into heated areas and install a tank
temperature sensor. That enabled us to add a bit of electric heat but
burn enough propane (12lb a day) to keep the tanks from freezeing.
The only practical way to use one of these in the winter would be
inside a shelter ... read big machine shed.
http://www.rvusa.com/forum/main/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1444
How do I keep my tanks from freezing if I want to use my RV during winter?
?If your entire water system is not insulated so that it can be used
(providing heat is maintained in the unit), then it is suggested that
the water system remain winterized and portable water be used (this is
also a safer method of winter camping just incase you should lose heat
for any reason). Keep your portable water in containers inside the
heated areas of your RV. Us this water for cooking, washing, cleaning
and flushing your toilet. Put antifreeze in the waste water holding
tanks to prevent them from freezing. Remember to add more antifreeze
as additional waste water is added from washing, flushing the toilet,
etc., while on your trip.
When you return home keep your RV furnace running until you can drain
the holding tanks and add antifreeze in the drain traps.
Sometimes if driving in snow or slush the dump valves can freeze shut.
You can prevent this by covering them with waterproof covers. If they
do freeze, you can thaw the valves by pouring warm water over them.?
http://www.rvadvice.com/faqs.html#6
?There are heating panels available that you can attach to the tanks
that are electrically powered (120v or 12v). I just use fiberglass
batting to build a "cave" surrounding the tanks and including the dump
valves. A small 40 watt light bulb supplies enough heat in any weather
we've encountered to keep things flowing.?
And
?Dump Valves - ALWAYS keep your blackwater valve closed and only dump
when full. If left open the liquids will drain off leaving only the
solids (they become very solid after a short period of time). In cold
weather we close both valves and dump when full as a trickle of grey
water can freeze and build up a dam in the sewer line totally blocking
the flow.?
?Buy 3" PVC solid sewer pipe that has one flared end ($7.50 for a 10
ft. length), cut a 1 foot length of your plastic hose leaving the
trailer connection in place and insert the other end into the flared
end of the pipe and tape securely. Cut the pipe with a hacksaw to the
correct length to reach your sewer dump and then install an elbow
fitting on that end. Insulate the whole thing with fiberglass batting
(15" wide will wrap around the pipe nicely) and cover this with poly
sheeting taped in place. This all may seem a bit of an inconvenience
but try dealing with a 12' long "poopsickle" at 20 below zero some
night for comparison.?
There are several good tips for avoiding frozen plumbing on this site.
Because of I am unable to post them all. See more here:
http://www.rverscorner.com/articles/winter.html
Park in the sun when possible! ?My roof tank vents have a cover over
them to prevent rain or snow from getting into the tanks and freezing
there.?
And
?When you pull up turn your furnace on, and don't use your water
system for much. You can put RV antifreeze in your potty and use it if
you choose, but most just add the antifreeze and don't use the water
at all. For drinking water keep your water in 5 gal water jugs near
the furnace. When you put something down the drain keep the grey water
outlet open and place a 5 gal pail below it, drain the pail very
often. Use the hottub and shower in the chalet for your personal
needs. It might sound crazy but it is done!?
and
?In that time I had a travel trailer and a fifth wheel. I used it down
to -26 F. My tanks were not in warm compartments so I had to put
antifreeze in them. I did use the shower stall, but I warmed water up
on the stove and poured it over myself with a glass. After I was done,
I put just as much antifreeze in the tank as water I used. I lived in
my trailer three days a week. I had two 30 lb. propane tanks. I could
go about 5 weeks on those two tanks. It depends on how warm you need
it. If you are just using the trailer for sleeping, you can get by
with using electric blankets. Some nights, even though it was really
cold, the blanket really was all I needed.?
And
?I've been winter camping now in Ontario Canada for 7 years. I leave
my grey and black water tanks open at all times, wrap my water hose
with electric wrapping tape/cord and plug in at all times, and shield
my outside propane regulator from freezing winds. A 1500 watt electric
heater will save on propane and wear and tear of furnace, and an
electric blanket is highly recommended. Experience is the best
teacher. If you look upon it as an adventure, winter get-away can be a
lot of fun.?
And
? I used a rubber 3" car heater blower hose for my sewer drain
connection. It can be had at any auto parts store. The last one I
bought was in 1983, it still does not leak and it coils up small. I
have used it in -42 F in Fort McMurry Alberta and to 121 F in Overton
Nevada. I had a 6' length for dumping stations and a 15' length for
when connected, which I supported with two different lengths of
plastic rain gutters, making it adjustable. In real cold, I added more
gutter pieces turned over, to keep the heat from a heat tape in the
sewer hose area. I left the grey tank open (down to -40 F once) so I
could leave a tap dripping. Don't use the heat tapes that have a
sensor on the end, just the kind that only heats up on the portion
that is at or below freezing. It is the only kind that can be crossed
over itself.?
And
?Around my fresh water supply hose I used foam insulation large enough
to put heat tape in it. Make sure it is the type you can use on
plastic pipe. If it did freeze I used a hot air gun to thaw it.
I had two 40,000 BTU Hydroflame furnaces. All my fluid tanks were
located above the frame under the bathroom area, with one heat hose
from each furnace heating the tank area, so all valves and connection
were in a heated area. I had two 40 lb propane tanks on the 5th wheel
and a 100 lb tank hooked up as well. That would last a week in -40 F
weather.?
http://www.sankey.ws/rvwinter.html
?Remember, as long as you are living in the RV and using the furnace,
there is not too much of a chance of the holding tanks freezing, but
they have to be well flushed and drained before going into storage.?
http://www.rvtimes.com/columns.php?file=rvrepairs&article=91#91
Or, consider airing out the lines, as outlined in the Travel Time forum link.
Travel Time Trailer owner?s forum, discussing weatherproofing.
http://www.trailerlife.com/cforum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/14149479/gotomsg/14159147.cfm
Heat blankets
?Typical gray and waste holding-tank capacities are 40 gallons each,
with a 55-gallon freshwater tank. If the customer wants larger tanks,
that?s what will be installed. Some clients want these tanks
winterized. Others don?t. To winterize them, 12-volt and 110-volt heat
blankets are used. Standard LP tanks are dual 30-pounders, but
40-pound tanks are also available.?
http://www.travelunits.com/
Page 65 (the Table of Contents says Page 59, but it is found on page
65) discuss winterizing your travel trailer for winter use.
?The main concern in winter operation or storage is to guard against
freezing damage to
the hot and cold water systems including water tanks, water lines,
water heater, drain
lines, holding tanks, traps, and battery. When using your travel
trailer at or below
freezing levels, put NONTOXIC antifreeze in the holding tank. DO NOT use alcohol or
alcohol-based solutions, but use only glycerin and propylene glycol
based solutions.
See your dealer for permanent-type antifreeze recommended for your area.?
Later on, it discusses winterizing the trailer for storage.
http://www.skylinecorp.com/ttmanual.pdf
Have a mechanic check the following items on your RV.
Battery
Antifreeze
Wipers and windshield washer fluid
Ignition system
Thermostat
Lights
Flashing hazard lights
Exhaust system
Heater
Brakes
Defroster
Oil level (if necessary, replace existing oil with a winter grade oil
or the SAE 10w/30 weight variety)
Winter RV/Car Kit
Keep these items in your RV:
Flashlights with extra batteries
First aid kit with pocket knife
Necessary medications
Several blankets
Sleeping bags
Extra newspapers for insulation
Plastic bags (for sanitation)
Matches
Extra set of mittens, socks, and a wool cap
Rain gear and extra clothes
Small sack of sand for generating traction under wheels
Small shovel
Small tools (pliers, wrench, screwdriver)
Booster cables
Set of tire chains or traction mats
Cards, games, and puzzles
Brightly colored cloth to use as a flag
Canned fruit and nuts
Nonelectric can opener
Bottled water
http://www.rv-coach.com/current_category.176/News.61/news_detail.html
Winter Generator Use tips:
??A Camp Power generator provides enough power to keep winter campers
toasty warm,? says Joyce Drinnin, manager for RV marketing with Onan.
?By following a few winter tips for generator operation, winter
enthusiasts can comfortably camp close to the activities of their
choice.?
The first thing winter campers using generators should remember is to
keep generator tailpipes clear. ?Be certain not to back generator
tailpipes into snowbanks or obstruct them in any way,? Drinnin
cautions. ?Also, for best operation, run the generator set with a full
load. Avoid running it with a light load for long periods of time.?
Other winter pointers include matching generator oil viscosity to
outdoor temperatures. And, although Camp Power generators are not
water-cooled, Drinnin reminds campers with water-cooled generators to
be certain to use the right strength of antifreeze to protect against
damage from freezing temperatures.
?Your owner?s manuals and your dealer should always be your primary
sources of information for winter RV and generator maintenance,?
Drinnin adds. ?With a little pretrip preparation, you can have a
comfortable, rewarding winter RVing experience.?
http://doityourself.com/travel/rving.htm
http://www.rv-coach.com/current_category.180/News.102/news_detail.html
Dry and wet methods of winterizing your trailer (for storage)
http://www.storagebin.ab.ca/freshwater.htm
Photos
http://www.rverscorner.com/articles/painless.html
Additional Information:
This seems to be a useful book, for $8.95 that outlines winterizing
your travel trailer.
http://www.newrver.com/winterize.html
More information about the books by Chuck Woodbury
http://www.newrver.com/easy.html
?In fact, Michigan RVers have been known to take their RVs on skiing
and snowmobiling excursions, fall color tours, and to travel to spring
festivals. Your RV dealer can help you prepare your RV for the cold
winter months so that you can be sure to enjoy all the benefits of
your RV year-round.?
http://www.marvac.org/faqs.htm
?Can I use my RV in the winter? Most RV's have built in furnaces
that allow for their use in cold weather. However, you will have to
take some simple steps to prevent the fresh and waste water systems
from freezing and excessive humidity build up inside. We would be
happy to advise you on the available options.?
http://www.hitchrv.com/FAQs_2.html
Contact Info
http://www.hitchrv.com/Contacts.html
Don?t forget about winter salt and the corrosion it can cause to RVs:
?Rust and Corrosion
In areas where it gets cold, most road authorities use salt mixtures
to help keep roads clear. Salt plus steel equals rust; salt plus
aluminum equals pitting.
The most effective protection for steel against salt-induced rusting
is oil that stays sufficiently fluid that it flows over damaged areas
to keep them protected. You should go once a year to a firm
specialising in this for best results - they add active rust
inhibitors and have effective procedures to contain their materials
around their premises. (In Canada I recommend Krown Body Maintenance.)
If you do it yourself, note that used oil is not as good as new - oil
becomes acid after use in an engine.
Aluminum is much more difficult to protect against salt corrosion, in
fact salt is prohibited on airports for this reason. (Airports use
urea, over 10x the cost of rock salt, and sweepers to keep runways
clear.) If you run through winter, you just have replace the lowest
panels of your rig every 5 years if you want them to look smart, in my
experience. I do not recommend the coatings sold under the trademark
Storm King to "protect against salt corrosion". They look absolutely
filthy within months and can not be cleaned even in a truck pressure
wash - road dirt goes right into the coating itself.?
http://www.sankey.ws/rvwinter.html
Owners seem happy with your model of travel trailer!
http://www.trailerlife.com/cforum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/14249472/gotomsg/14258720.cfm
RV Parks in Sedona
http://www.rvpark.com/ariz.htm
http://www.visitsedona.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=sub_listing&cat=1&sub_cat=7
http://www.allcampgrounds.com/az.html
If you haven?t been to Sedona before, you will be pleasantly
surprised-it is breathtakingly beautiful. I live about an hour and a
half from Sedona, and visit there several times a year. It *does* get
cold there though! If you are interested in art, you may want to also
consider Arcosanti, a bit to the south of Sedona.
?Cosanti in Paradise Valley, Arizona is the residence and sculpture
studio of Paolo Soleri and his staff. Soleri (later joined by his
students) began work on the experimental buildings in the mid 1950?s.
Designated as an Arizona Historic Site, Cosanti presents a unique
bio-climatic architectural environment. Its structures feature many
imaginative design elements, reflecting innovative construction
techniques.?
http://www.arcosanti.org/
Mayer, AZ is a few degrees warmer than Sedona!
http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KPRC/2003/11/1/DailyHistory.html
Things to do in Arizona!
http://www.azcentral.com/travel/arizona/toolkit/thingstodo.html
Enjoy your stay in my state, gildalilly! If any part of my answer is
unclear, please request an Answer Clarification, before rating. This
will allow me to assist you further, if possible.
Regards,
crabcakes
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